07-11-2021, 12:55 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-11-2021, 01:03 PM by heavyhorse.)
"President Biden on Friday signed a broad executive order aimed at reducing corporate consolidation, increasing competition, and offering benefits for consumers, workers, and small businesses. "Today I'm going to be signing ... an executive order promoting competition. To lower prices. To increase wages. To take another critical step toward an economy that works for everybody," Biden said. The 72-action plan takes aim at restrictive employee noncompete agreements; requires airlines to refund passengers for poor Wi-Fi and baggage handling; calls for over-the-counter sales of hearing aids; and guarantees the right for farmers and motorists to "repair their own vehicles without voiding warranty protections," among other initiatives,"
(In case you didn't know, manufacturers of late have declared that "owners" are only buying the USE of their machinery and vehicles, and the proprietary ownership remains with the manufacturer, software in particular, and cannot be modified or repaired by the user, in compliance with the mandatory TOS or User Agreement.)
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7 hours ago, heavyhorse said:
(In case you didn't know, manufacturers of late have declared that "owners" are only buying the USE of their machinery and vehicles, and the proprietary ownership remains with the manufacturer, software in particular, and cannot be modified or repaired by the user, in compliance with the mandatory TOS or User Agreement.)
Having been personally involved in the fight years ago, I can say that anyone who buys into that is a fool. The magic words are "Magnuson-Moss". In response to similar claims 50 years ago Congress passed Federal law that required any repairs or maintenance not reasonably possible for owners to perform must be performed for free at the dealership and/or included in the original purchase price.
The manufacturers responded by pricing the information needed to diagnose and repair their vehicles at around $50,000 per inquiry. The EPA and DOT responded that they were extending Magnuson-Moss to all vehicles of any age that required a safety or emissions related repair. We know the compromise they reached as "Alldata".
There is a license and background check required to obtain security related info but it's not terribly expensive.
The basic rude reality is that dealers own enough service bays to service about 10% of the existing fleet. If they get their way, they will face a customer rebellion beyond their wildest imagination when repairs take months on average.
*Observes that it already takes "months on average" to get your Airbags of Death replaced. This before adding in the recently announced GM pickups Side Airbags of Death.... *
Many years ago, Harley - Davidson would not release their repair manuals to the public. After they changed the policy I asked the local dealer what difference it had made to his business. He said he had lost no shop business, but his parts sales had increased, and he profited on manual sales. He opined that riders who hired work done didn't care, while the tinkerers bought parts 'just in case' which might not have needed replacement.
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19 hours ago, littlejohn said:
..... parts which might not have needed replacement.
Many, many parts are sold that don't need replacement, as a means of diagnosing a problem. As in "Try replacing the ******, maybe that will fix it". If it doesn't, then buy some other part. So increased revenue?
Diagnosing an issue is pretty much a lost art, even where computerized aids exist. One manufacturer that I am a dealer for sends out bulletins every few months warning servicers that their account will NOT be reimbursed when they submit warranty return parts that are not actually defective, that more than HALF of high-dollar parts returned are in good working order (or were before removal). Implied: "So get your diagnosis correct or eat the bill, boys".
There are a lot of companies that put their entire catalog online and invite you to look up your own parts. Spicer and John Deere are examples. It solves the "but you told me. . ." problem. And there are others that still have protected territories, Tenneco/Case/IH/New Holland for example.
The right to repair in general is a good thing. I have been loosely following the movement online and I believe making devices more easily repairable instead of planned obsolesce is a good thing.
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22 hours ago, dog said:
I believe making devices more easily repairable instead of planned obsolesce is a good thing.
Very much so. The amount of electronic waste in the world is honestly mind boggling. A lot of the electronic waste form United States is shipped to developing counties as a cheap way to get rid of it. I imagine we're not the only ones doing it. That said, planned obsolesce, even with devices being easily repairable, is still unavoidable. Moore's law is still a thing to contend with. It doesn't matter if you iPhone becomes easily repairable because people will still buy a new one every 1-3 years due to the old model becoming slow and outdated.
We'll have to see how this plays out. I know that John Deere is pretty much leading the battle against your right to repair. A lot of the newer John Deere products have computer software that basically shuts the machine down and renders it inoperable until it is essentially "unlocked" by a certified John Deere mechanic. You can try to fix it yourself, but it's often the case that you're forced to spend $800 - $2000 to ship it to an authorized mechanic. I've also heard many stories of these mechanics stating that "Oh, you repaired X problem incorrectly. We will not unlock it until you pay us Y amount of $$$ to fix it "correctly.""
The same thing is happening to many consumer grade Lawn/Garden Tractors. MTD and John Deere are big proponents of this. Mainly because lawn tractor mowers are stupid easy to repair. Heck, whenever I have issues out of mine I usually just go to YouTube and search for the fix. More often than not, it takes some simple hand tools and an hour or two of work. For example, on older John Deere lawn tractors many of them have basic Spicer transmissions. These transmissions are easily obtained used. So what John Deere has been doing recently with their newer tractors is changing the parts around and how they function every single model year. An example of this would be their recent decision to unnecessarily switch the brake pad to the opposite side of the gear box, so that older Spicer transmissions are unable to work in newer models.
Rambling aside, while I'm happy something like this has been signed, I'm sure companies will still find ways around it.
First off, JD doesn't make anything smaller than 180 hp any more. It's Yanmar that you're mad at.
Second, the software is called "the environmental variable" and is found in just about everything with an emissions rating. When you turn the key on the main processor polls the network for the ID of all peripheral processors. If one of those processors has been changed or tampered with it will answer with a different ID than the main processor has stored for it. That's when it says "fuck you". This started around 2010.
If the device is within its emission warranty period they have to fix it for free. If it's out of warranty and your fix was necessary to restore proper function, they have to reset for a reasonable price. The Fed defines "reasonable" as under $100 after you get it to the dealer or pay them to come to you. Now the bad news, Yanmar is on the other side of the ocean and thinks you should just buy a new one. Dealer doesn't have to co-operate with them and they don't have to let him stay a dealer.
Understand that "feature" is there because the Feds want it there. Too many idiots operating under the "if it's louder it has more power" level of brilliance are tampering with things they don't understand and the Feds want it stopped. But you still have a right to get what it takes to fix it right for a reasonable price.
BTW, if it doesn't have the serial number on the back center of the rear differential housing (next to the PTO if so equipped) it isn't made by John Deere.
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