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The trouble with NOT publicly discussing zoophilia
#1


By no means am I saying we /must/ ... but its inevitable, if no one puts out an intentional discussion, than all that is put out is unintentional outting, incidents like Mr. Hands and a probably increasing-frequency-over-time reports of zoophiles caught fencehopping or otherwise caught in the act.  All the public will know about bestiality are the worst of us, or us at our worst.




Cameras and hacking tools are probably only going to get more ubiquitous and capable over time, which is why I think the frequency of unfortunate and uncontrollable hostile reporting of bestiality will generally increase over time.  If we leave it to just that to represent us, more witchhunts will come and we won't have any advocates for us.


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#2


The trouble is trying to find that "magic formula" which would solve this problem of representation. When I think about how long it took for homosexuals to gain acceptance, it reminds me that this fight for our own acceptance might be for naught.




I think having a positive portrayal in the media would help, but by how much?


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#3

There was a 5- or 6-part documentary on youtube about zoophilia, probably still there,  I'm not aware that our situation has improved markedly because of it--

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#4


No, Eagle...intentionally bringing up zoophilia and bestiality on every appropriate and inappropriate occasion will only have the effect of trauma. People don´t want to think about people fucking animals , for whatever reason. To some, forcing this topic into public discourse by intent will have traumatising effects that make it impossible to reach them with any argument anymore. And finally, where does this idea of "society owes us" come from? 




I wouldn´t worry about cameras and hacking tools too much, I too have cameras to secure my horses, but even when hacked, no one will ever get to see something incriminating because the "magic" is happening out of the camera´s range, even when you hack the control modules and  gain access to the motors moving the cameras. Zoophilia might be the only sexual orientation that demands some brains, eh? 




But just like Heavyhorse said, there are vast numbers of films, documentaries and other stuff out there, trying to paint a more favorable picture of zoophilia, but with absolutely no effect in society. I think you´re putting way too much faith in methods that aren´t working for us at all...and I also sense that typical misled "transposition" of LGBT "liberation" tactics. Won´t work, because animals can´t speak their minds in a way that society is defining as informed consent. In homosexual relationships, informed consent is no issue at all, as well as power imbalance. So, just following the LGBT blueprint and forcing zoophilia into the discourse will not get us anywhere. 




Saturnine even had a bright moment when he said that all stife for acceptance might be in vain. There will never be a basical absolution for animal fuckers, the only thing we should place our hopes onto is "teaching by example". If anyone really wants to help zoophilia, then living a life as a mentally stable, levelheaded, non excessive zoo will surely not be unnoticed by some. Moderation is the key, finding common ground with society is the key. Realising that each and every word is important, even in here although the chances of outsiders coming in isn´t nearly as high as it was on reddit; each one of us is an ambassador representing zoophilia publicly. 




Funny though that you mention all the fencehoppers and others who were caught doing some really dumb stuff...so, what about distancing ourselves from these eejits once and for all? How about leading by example instead of crying for yet another meaningless, but "fair" documentary on "zoophilia"? Trying to establish as many linking points to the "normals" as we can by cleaning out the mess our community has become , with all that fetishism influx, poly"amory" and other rubbish only making it immensely more difficult to convince anyone from the outside? That would be the first few things coming into my mind here. Don´t wait for others to act, each and every one of you matters if we really want to change things. There IS a way to influence society, but it´s surely not comfy, it´s surely not effortless, it definitely will come with the need to lose some, if not many of the dearly held beliefs in our community. If we want change, it has to start with us first. The only way out of a dead end is to do a 180 , accelerate and see what new options will open us...but the 180 is essential or we will only continue bumping our heads against a massive concrete wall blocking us for more than two decades.




Change IS possible, but it will cost you...so, who´s willing to give in order to get something? No one? Thought so...change is always something that OTHERS need to manage, never us ourselves, eh? [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> 


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#5

Congrats on entirely missing my point that whether or not we put our word in, bestiality is going to be forced into public discussion the next time somezoo gets too drunk fucking a stallion or someone else gets their rocks off fencehopping and were caught on a security camera.  The difference is then we would have no control over any part of the message.

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#6

Quote:
Just now, Eagle said:




we would have no control over any part of the message.




We don't anyway.  Running to their rescue only puts us in the same boat.  Take a cue from the Gay Crusade if you like--  The in-your-face Gays back then just made people more homophobic (I know; one of them was a relative).  But the gays with jobs, houses, cars, lawnmowers, you know, just basic stable people that happened to be gay, that never brought it up in public (OK, just how often do you see some straight guy blowing off about his orientation in the checkout line at the DMV?  So why should they?  Or we?), made more inroads on people's prejudice that all the public spectacle did.   It's already out there.  Any more messaging isn't going to put it out there more.  If someday the world moderates a bit, and there aren't any more "animal sex farms" or "goat raped to death" spectacles, and people just live with their animals and keep their heads down, maybe it mellows out a bit.  But being more public isn't going to make it better.  Not now. 


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#7


Kudos to Heavyhorse for getting it right. It´s not only that we usually "run to their rescue", making it worse by doing so, it´s also about the tribalism mentality that leaves no place for honest and objective evaluation of the "zoo" in the crosshairs...culminating in trials against amateur animal porn makers...with full support by ZETA members although what those guys did stands directly diametrically against what ZETA is propagating as their "zoo codex" on their homepage. If our community could just get rid of shooting itself in the foot habitually, it would make more of a difference than all "pro zoo" documentaries and movies combined. Oh, by the way, tonight the German movie "Wolf" featuring the story of a woman developing a strange attraction towards a wolf is airing on free TV , namely the French-German ARTE. 




About the gays: what many don´t get is that society´s patience and openness to changes comes in limited amounts. To overstress it means going backwards several years at once. What most of the "sexually progressives" don´t think about is that society needs time to regain its balance disturbed by major changes in societal norms. That alone should make it plausible why always pushing for more and more " sexual freedom" is doomed to fail. The backlash with all the conservatives coming into power again should be obvious. Like a rubber band, society only endures a certain amount of stress...once you overstress it, it will rip. Or , as Heavyhorse said, "...going more public isn´t going to make things better. Not now." We need patience and enough wits to recognise it if  and when another "window" opens up for us...


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#8

Society isn't going in the right direction, at least in the U.S.  Fascism is taking hold, the U.S. is on the path to becoming an Axis nation.

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#9

Quote:
4 minutes ago, Eagle said:




Society isn't going in the right direction, at least in the U.S.  Fascism is taking hold, the U.S. is on the path to becoming an Axis nation.




Once bestiality becomes a felony in every state, and zoos are imprisoned for decades or even life if they get caught, I'm sure that people will start to come to their senses.


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#10

It pretty much is on its own, which, again, was one of the points I made.  We're guaranteeing that will happen by letting the inevitable events like Mr. Hands speak for us and provide nothing but silence in return.

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