06-12-2018, 05:35 AM
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On 11.06.2018 at 4:56 AM, threelegs said:
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On 11.06.2018 at 4:56 AM, threelegs said:
30-30,
We need a Greek language scholar for this, but I think you're giving an improper definition of 'zoophile.' If you want to talk about the sexual aspect of the relationship, then 'zoo-erotic' would be a better fit. It's just that the two realms overlap with us, where they don't with the everyday pet owners.
I spent some time around 'born-again' Christian Bible scholars, and I remember that there were, I think, four words for 'love' in Greek. The one they were all excited about was 'agape', a spiritual love. Then there was 'phileo' (IIRC) which is 'brotherly love'--like in Philadelphia ('City of Brotherly Love'). 'Eros' (sp?) was sexual, and I forget the other. Now that I think of it, that 'phileo' may be getting a lot of misuse, or else it means something other than 'brotherly.'
You seem to imply that our connection with animals is something recent, a compensation for our schism with nature. I disagree; we've always had this, as witnessed by the depiction of animals in the earliest artworks humans have made, not to mention that we were domesticating animals before we invented agriculture and maybe even before we had language. To fill a hole in our souls? Absolutely, but that hole is about a half a million years older than concrete and computer screens, so, yes, ab initio, but not a schism with nature. We still have our old animal instincts; we just don't pay attention to them anymore.
30-30,
We need a Greek language scholar for this, but I think you're giving an improper definition of 'zoophile.' If you want to talk about the sexual aspect of the relationship, then 'zoo-erotic' would be a better fit. It's just that the two realms overlap with us, where they don't with the everyday pet owners.
I spent some time around 'born-again' Christian Bible scholars, and I remember that there were, I think, four words for 'love' in Greek. The one they were all excited about was 'agape', a spiritual love. Then there was 'phileo' (IIRC) which is 'brotherly love'--like in Philadelphia ('City of Brotherly Love'). 'Eros' (sp?) was sexual, and I forget the other. Now that I think of it, that 'phileo' may be getting a lot of misuse, or else it means something other than 'brotherly.'
You seem to imply that our connection with animals is something recent, a compensation for our schism with nature. I disagree; we've always had this, as witnessed by the depiction of animals in the earliest artworks humans have made, not to mention that we were domesticating animals before we invented agriculture and maybe even before we had language. To fill a hole in our souls? Absolutely, but that hole is about a half a million years older than concrete and computer screens, so, yes, ab initio, but not a schism with nature. We still have our old animal instincts; we just don't pay attention to them anymore.
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First of all, let me inform you that the biblical/christian interpretation of agape is a very mutilated version of the original meaning. Greek culture was a "sex friendly" one and thus, all the four words (agape, philia, eros, storge) had both aspects in them, the emotional love aspects as well as the physical love/desire aspects, but in various degrees.
Let´s do it top down, okay?
1. agape: The Greeks defined agape as a divine form of love, very much limited to the non-physical aspects. A spiritual love towards ideas and deities, for example. That´s why you´ll never come across a "zooagapist", a "homoagapist" or such...
2. phileia: It´s true that phileia/philia strongly hints at a form of "friend love", but the Greek didn´t exclude sexuality at all in a "phileia". Loving your brother as in " adelphon philein" (= to love a brother) is only one interpretation , but it´s also a phileia when sexual desire is present, but not the predominant motive.
3. eros: Eros, on the other hand, is very much focused on desire and ego. "I desire...", "I want to fuck..."...that´s the eros. The Greek word "eraste" literally means sexual desire totally disconnected from mutual love...you can be "erotically attracted" without your "victim" reflecting any desire towards you while phileia always depends on mutuality and your emotional love being reflected onto you by your "victim"/desired individual.
4 storge: This word is seldom used, the Latin version of "stuprum" is what you may have come across. It literally means " sexuelle Schändung" (molestation) , as in "Tierschändung" (animal molestation) or "Kinderschändung" (child molestation). Storge very much refers to an unhealthy and egotistical version of "love" very much focused on the sexual act alone, without any connotation of emotion or love.
In short, you can say that agape = devotion and benevolence , phileia = connectedness and "friendly love", eros = rampant desire solely present in the "lover" and not the "loved" and storge = fetishistic attraction solely relying on physical aspects, paired with a total lack of emotional attachment or even recognition of that emotional plane to the "person" itself
I really hope you don´t actually believe that our recent approach towards animals isn´t something entirely new. Just go back some 50 years, shall we? Dogs were only rarely kept in the house and had an actual fuction, namely to protect your house and thus, predominantly were kept outside. Horses , cows, pigs etc...the German word "Nutztier" (useable animal) give quite a stern hint at that. Even dogs were considered "Nutztiere", they served a purpose. Today, animals are accepted as "equals" (within a very narrow interpretation of equality), they are our "friends", they sleep in our beds, they are pampered and treated as kids or family members...and that´s rather new in mankind´s history. Although the Indian king Ashoka introduced the world´s first "animal protection laws" more than three millennia ago, this "animal friendly" attitude only came to full fruition in our recent ages. 50 years ago, no one cared for "humane slaughter techniques", today this is absolutely an issue...despite the fact that killing remains killing, no matter how "humane" is is conducted. 50 years ago, no one would have batted an eye on you kicking your disobedient dog ...if you do that today, you can be sure the police will turn up in no time to arrest you because of cruelty, take away the dog from you and draw you in front of a judge. To say that our recent times aren´t special is , sorry to say, a bit delusional. Animals have changed their status from "natural resource you don´t give a shit about" to "family member/friend/ beloved pet"...well, at least some.
The hole in our souls I was referring to also is a very recent development in mankind. And this IS owed to our recent "self optimisation" culture, to our westerner enticement with youth and capability, you have to "live your life to the fullest", you have to "experience everything"....this is "modern think" and is unprecendented in human culture before...we´re basically all subject to a massive civilisatorian experiment. Just consider online porn...all your ancestors combined only had the chance to see a teeny tiny fraction of nude people and copulating humans you´re capable of seeing with two click. We don´t know what will do this with us. Consumerism that has led to a ever rising obesity rate (mankind never was so fat at any given time in its history before). To sum it up: when everything has a price (is available for consumption), then nothing wil have a value anymore. Capitalism works best with mindless consumers, not educated citizens...buy and you´ll be happy! Matter over mind, greed over solidarity, ego over everything. That is what rips open this hole in us more ffectively than anything else mankind had encountered in history. Matter over mind...no soul, eat, fuck, watch the telly/internet, distraction, not contemplation. The golden apple rolled into the banquet hall of the Greek gods, with the word "kallisti" (for the most beautiful) written on it...resulting in all the deities fighting over whom this apple belongs. Hail Eris. Hail Discordia for showing us what´s wrong with us. Unprecedented. "America first" winning elections. "Deutschland über alles". Hail greed, hail the ego, hail consumerism. And nevermind that with every good we consume out of sheer "pleasure", we eat another tiny part of what´s left of our souls. Bon appetité!
