10-22-2018, 10:33 PM
A query from User\Silver who cannot word it properly: If Zoophilia is a "Love" of animals and Spaying/ Neutering increases lifespan, why don't zoophiles all spay/ neuter their animals? Thoughts.
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Spay/ Neuter Ethics and Zoophilia
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 A query from User\Silver who cannot word it properly: If Zoophilia is a "Love" of animals and Spaying/ Neutering increases lifespan, why don't zoophiles all spay/ neuter their animals? Thoughts.
10-22-2018, 10:42 PM
My own thoughts. Most of my dogs have been spayed or neutered, mostly to prevent unwanted breedings not longer lifespans. I've seen whole dogs live extremely long lives. Anyway, with Tippy and Shadow I admit to pure selfishness. I wanted the sex thus they remained unspayed. No more glorious or noble reasons than that. Of course the discussion is limited to the dogs in my case. I've kept no cats and my horses and sheep are outside the discussion. sw 
10-22-2018, 11:32 PM
I just don't understand... Why would you just casually admit to that? This breaks the pattern of the rest of your posts and it's really scary. Why would you even be so selfish, then? Why can no one be a reasonable and honest zoophile and let it happen to their animals? 
10-23-2018, 01:22 AM
Currently it is not conclusive that spay/neuter in dogs increases lifespan or prevents health problems. In fact some studies have shown that spay and neuter, particularly early spay/neuter done before the dog is fully mature, may cause more problems than it prevents. Here's a copy/paste of a post I made in another thread here called "Of Of Interest" that links to the major study on adverse health affects of "speuter." The main concerns are joint, ligament, and bone related. "The most commonly-referenced study is the UC Davis golden retriever study: https://www.ucdavis.edu/news/golden-retr...og-health/ <p style="background-color:#ffffff;color:#353c41;font-size:14px;"> http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article...ne.0055937 <p style="background-color:#ffffff;color:#353c41;font-size:14px;"> Many vets, animal professionals, working/sporting dog people and show dog people are now shifting to preferring late spay/neuter if they want to get it done as opposed to pediatric (before 1-2 years depending on the breed). If someone wants to speuter it's much better for the dog, particularly as far as joint and bone development goes, to do it after maturity if they can responsibly keep the dog from breeding until then." <p style="background-color:#ffffff;color:#353c41;font-size:14px;"> I know many non-zoophile show dog owners/breeders/sport competitors who keep their dogs intact their entire lives and they live long, healthy ones. The main risk is pyometra in unspayed female dogs. However it's not as common as many people make it out to be. Many female show dogs aren't spayed until late in life after their show career is over, if spayed at all, and do fine. If pyo is caught early, an emergency spay is the usual procedure. In the future I will likely elect for a later in life or an ovary-saving spay for any female dogs. <p style="background-color:#ffffff;color:#353c41;font-size:14px;"> To my knowledge, in livestock females are not spayed unless there is a medical emergency because operations on large animals like that (especially horses) are very risky. Non-breeding males are castrated because behavior is generally much easier to manage and less dangerous. Male pigs are castrated because testosterone production causes their meat to taste foul. So far, the only studies on overall health of spay/neuter are on dogs. <p style="background-color:#ffffff;color:#353c41;font-size:14px;"> I personally have a mix of altered and intact animals here. My rodents are not altered as it is impractical and unnecessary for the species. My dog was spayed early because I believed it was the healthy choice at the time, as those studies had not been released and I also wasn't very dog-savvy then. My cats are all altered because frankly intact cats don't make good housepets. My rabbit is not spayed due to weighing the risks vs benefits with my vet's advice. Any future male dogs will likely not be neutered because I don't personally see it as medically necessary, and (seeing the results of that study) I don't want to compromise physical health because they will be athletes. Future female dogs will have ovary-saving or late spay. I don't see spay and neuter as a "one size fits all" thing. I think it depends on both the individual animal (their age, lifestyle, activities, species) and the owner (how well they are able to manage an intact animal, what kind of behavior they are willing to train with, safety with large species, etc). 
10-23-2018, 04:08 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2018, 04:26 AM by heavyhorse.)
Quote: As battlecrops notes above, "Silver" has proposed an "if" that is not a given fact (I suspect from context simply to stir the shit; some folks seem to thrive on shit-stirring). I have on file PDF: "Long-Term Health Risks and Benefits Associated with Spay / Neuter in Dogs Laura J. Sanborn, M.S. May 14, 2007" that doesn't support s/n as a health improvement except in specific breed cases. Personal experience was a late-spayed Dane bitch that the last years of her life experienced the usual post-menopause symptoms: dementia, mini-strokes, back failure, uncontrolled hair growth (had to be sheep-sheared monthly in warm weather), incontinence, finally paralysis from spinal collapse, had to be put down. Her last few years were hard enough on her and me to never risk s/n again. I have attached the above PDF in the canine health and wellbeing section for those interested: www.zoowg.net/topic/568-long-term-health-risks-and-benefits-associated-with-spay-neuter-in-dogs-12-page-pdf/ 
10-23-2018, 05:44 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-23-2018, 05:47 AM by WinterGreenWolf.)
Quote: For me, it's sort of two-fold as to why I don't think the conventional spay / neuter are a good idea. A personal (selfish, to an extend I recon) and a logical one. The personal reason first: Being an exclusive, and having had, and know I enjoy it: I would like the -option- of sex to stay on the table (note I didn't say requirement..), I'm inexperienced with bitches but I find I'm attracted to both, though with a semi-heavy Male bias. That being said -some- (what I'd almost call hero-vets in their own right) vets are offering alternatives to the 'full stop' procedure: things like vasectomies for Males and Tubal Ligation or Ovary Sparing Spays for Females: keeping the sex drive and hormone structures in tact but preventing pet overpopulation in the process. Now the logical one (in my mind anyways..): Spaying and neutering do not increase lifespan: in a lot of canines it can actually -lower- lifespan and increase health problems, especially later in life. Like all mammals dogs go through a puberty stage, it's shorter because of reduced lifespan overall, but it does exist. Especially with an 'early' (four to six months) spay or neuter you basically have an ever-puppy: a dog who may very well have permanent emotional issues: aggression, fear urination and the like. Not to mention a perma-hyper state like the current German Shepherd I watch over (he's twelve, acts like a year and a half minus any masturbation, humping or sexual interest). The physical side-effects are a no-go either for me: joints with always-open growth plates, skin cell tumors / mast cell tumors, lymphomas, osteosarcoma and Hemangeosarcoma (two virtually terminal cancers). Atypical Cushings Disease is a major cause foe these issues too. Canines will continue to produce sexual hormones without their gonads: though it's a huge strain and virtually none are produced: just enough to in a sense 'remind' of 'adult' behavior like dominance display and marking. Atypical Cushings effects the Endocrine system: Pancreas, Adrenal Glands, Pituitary gland, etc... The glands that are responsible for hormone production like Insulin, Adrenaline, Cortisol, and compounds responsible for energy like ADP and ATP (Adenosine Diphosphate and Adenosine Triphosphate) are now in distress: taxed with producing Androgen, Testosterone, and Estrogen. A lot of the above info was sourced from the more recent studies by Dr. Karen Becker (SP?) as well as the U.C. Davis school of veterinary Medicine, and the University of Perdue School of Veterinary Medicine. I can't remember the exact links or terms of the study. It was found however that Rottweilers and Golden Retrievers had a much higher risk of Hip Dysplasia as well as cancers like Osteosarcoma (thoes two breeds are notorious for cancer anyways). I know it was long, but I wanted to provide at least some evidence as to why I feel the way I do: and not just a simple sexual reason. I really do wish the 'alternative' procedures would start to become more common place and vets would be trained to perform them better: guy can dream I guess. [img]<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/wink.png[/img]/emoticons/[email protected] 2x" title=";)" width="20" /> EDIT: Well shit, Battlecrops beat me to a lot of it: I'll leave all my ramble in tact though. 
10-23-2018, 07:40 AM
While I'm open to both sides of this, it's pretty clear that your particular group has a... ahem... bias to one side for a particular reason. That being said, I don't care if that is even the case. If you ask me, one could make a case against spaying and neutering on the same grounds people generally attack bestiality: They didn't consent to it. Well, I don't care on either front. Pet ownership is a thing best managed by the owner as long as it's not going to result in obvious pain and neglect.
10-26-2018, 02:29 PM
Quote: You wanted an honest answer and got one, and you're insulted by it. As I said in my answer, I spayed the few others I had over the years to prevent unwanted breedings in their future homes. These were dogs I fostered and that was the ethical step to take given they were all rescues due to unwanted breedings themselves. I loved Tippy and Shadow extremely, heart and soul. Had there been ANY health reason or benefit known to me to prompt spaying either of them they would have been spayed. There was not, so, selfishly, they remained whole and we remained enjoying sex. Admit? Like it's a crime? No. I simply state it, as it is what it is. As far as "Breaks the pattern of the rest of your posts..." I think you'll find ALL my posts honest and forthright like the above. sw
10-26-2018, 05:13 PM
Quote: And that's exactly what I mean. They always claim they love their animals and would even sacrifice sex for wellbeing, yet here we fucking are. They're being hypocrites and are contradicting themselves like usual. You'll hear excuses you won't hear from any normal or reasonable animal owner. They'll provide ''evidence'' even though there's plenty of stuff around stating the exact opposite. If they really want to be respected, they better change their ways. I personally stopped caring about what others think so I'm willing to ridicule myself online, as long as the truth gets out there. You know... I was just like them once. I was strongly against fencehopping, spaying, and neutering (also monogamy, but nobody is against that here, it's just that I've accepted that monogamy is an extremely selfish concept of ''love''). Those opinions were based on my feelings and not actual facts. When it came to spaying and neutering, I, just like them, pulled nonsense ''evidence'' out of my ass because it supported my opinion. I later changed my ways and accepted that I was a stupid and selfish, and even turned into a fencehopper, polyamorist, and supporter of spaying and neutering myself. Now I just wish they changed their ways, but they're stubborn and it'll benefit them more to just silence and ignore me. Luckily the outsiders recognize how fucked up they are and that we'll never experience the acceptance of zoophilia in our lifetimes. If they're really that desperate for respect and such, they'll eventually learn what they'll have to do. Quote: It's not even about the consent, it's about the animal's wellbeing and the zoophile's intent. And animals can give consent to sex with humans, so I'm not sure why you brought that up. Quote: Yet it doesn't disgust you that they're just contradicting themselves and nobody bats an eye but me? They're not only selfish and lying about truly caring about their animals, but they're missing out on a chance to increase their animal's health. You don't think animals deserve longer lives? Quote: Yes, because it's a horrible reality. I don't want to hate any of you, but it's things like this that just get to me. It's really hard to swallow that I'm the only zoophile who actually fucking cares about their animal's health rather than being an oversexualized autist. Quote: This isn't about preventing pregnancy, this is about their wellbeing and health. Spaying and neutering increases an animal's health. Just because your animals lucked out doesn't mean they always be. Hell, they could've even lived longer, but I guess sex is more important. I shouldn't be surprised because I'm talking about someone who had sex three, two, or one time(s) a day. What kind of drugs were you taking? Seriously, what the actual fuck. Shit's unnatural... But this is about dogs you were giving away, so I probably should talk about that. Well, have you ever thought about finding good homes for these dogs? That is also your responsibility to do when it comes to selling or giving away animals. You ask those humans about their lives and see if they're responsible enough. I was 15 when I got my own bitch who I cared for all on my own. I was really fucking stupid but even so I could prevent this from happening. In the last months I've been walking a really fucking horny male that constantly wants to fuck her, and even when she was in heat I could easily prevent it. The amount of effort you have to put in this is nothing. If you give your dogs to humans that can't do it better than some fucking retard rookie like me back then, then there's obvious issues. Of course it was the right thing to do, but this was your reason, so I tackled that point. Quote: Yeah, you loved them for the fact that it was basically free sex. I doubt the majority of humans would provide you with that much sex because almost no one has such an unnatural libido. There ARE health reasons to spaying and neutering. You must really love cancer, I guess. Quote: Yeah you straight up admitted to being selfish, that's what I meant. Quote: The pattern is that you don't admit to being selfish. You did show it before in different ways, but you never admitted it.
10-26-2018, 07:49 PM
Reading comprehension son, try it. It eliminates the general bulk of your rant above. It's a shame really, you have a chance to actually debate the one topic you claimed to be closest to your heart in this thread yet would rather melt down than even produce one study supporting your claim of longer lifespan or provide any debatable evidence at all. Rescues fostered and re-homed have that new home obviously heavily vetted before the dog is sent there. Tippy was indeed a 2 and sometimes 3 times a day girl, and I kept up being in my late 20s- 30s. Sorry if you couldn't and are jealous. I couldn't today either at 50+. Shadow wasn't so much, more like once a day or less. It wasn't just about the sex though. I was just as content having no sex in the years between them, and even more-so now since Shadows death. While they were with me though, sex was indeed a part of our relationships. "Free sex" though? Spoken like one who has never had the full responsibility in my opinion. Show some evidence for your position, or at the very least actually debate and question the evidence offered against, or something useful instead of this bullshit. I doubt it anyway, by the way. sw |
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