Zeta Principle as Community Framework (Education Without Promotion)

[Darkmoor]

1 hour ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Me personally, I wish I'd had someone LIKE me guiding me when I was discovering and growing as a Zoo

Isn't this in complete opposition with the ideas presented by Kharrs?


Where was it you said? Oh, here it is:

9 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




All I'm saying is we share a damn-near identical view on the ZETA Principals which are what he called in to question.

Please show how it is not in conflict with the condition of "without promoting"?

[WinterGreenWolf]

1 hour ago, Darkmoor said:




shhh, shhh. Quiet your yapping. Here, Let Kharrs and I show you how adults talk.

Boy you really got upset with that huh?




Welcome back 30-30, or at least your bullshit seems to be on his caliber. I guess I know now the more I read back through this thread and some of his older ones, I can discount you both now.

1 hour ago, Darkmoor said:




Isn't this in complete opposition with the ideas presented by Kharrs?

No it isn't, because it would be the same thing I'm telling people now. If you aren't smart enough / educated enough, and able to mitigate risk: don't fucking do it, period.




Same with the porn, I'd inform 'me' (as I do with the 'new Zoo types' to stay the fuck away from porn sites and forums like ZooVille for a huge reason, promotion without account for risk and pandering abuse to people. For an 'erudite old guard' you sure didn't didn't think that statement through very well did ya?

1 hour ago, Darkmoor said:




Please show how it is not in conflict with the condition of "without promoting"?

You assume having someone saying 'whoa there slick, don't fuck the dog: you have a LOT of learning and growing to do' is the same as 'yeah, bend over'.




You REALLY,  REALLY need to work on your positioning.




As an aside too, you being some kind of 'grey beard' that writes paragraphs doesn't impress me, it's the substance not the verbosity. So this little quip about let me show you how adults talk, is NOT how 'adults talk' bud. I hate to break it to you.




As far as I can see, the possibly two good points you've made are awash in the rest being worthless as tits on a boar hog.




I'll tell you the same thing I told Bear too above: this 'same shit' attitude you have and forcing people to repeat steps 1 - 10 ad-infinite in the community isn't helping. We can never reach step 11, 12, 13... with views like this, and with people like you shooting down every attempt at something different, especially at a different chronological point.




- Learn from history, don't keep reliving it.




 

[Darkmoor]

11 hours ago, Kharrs said:




People who care about their animal lovers should, by definition, educate themselves about everything they can to ensure the safety of themselves and that animal.  This should follow naturally for the love and concern for their wellbeing and was what motivated me in my youth to seek out any and all information I could get my hands on at the time to figure shit out.

You would think. This however, what I see are zoos that know less and less about their animals, despite the general ease of access to information that wasn't readily available decades ago.

Face it, the younger generations are getting more entitled, not  less. They want the answers spoon fed to them, without even bothering to search for it themselves.

11 hours ago, Kharrs said:




The point here, is to be able to make this information available to those who are curious and seek it out.

What I've yet to see mentioned is the sorting process. How do you make this information available without advertising? How do you give it to those that need it, without making it available for everyone? Is it just a reference library, look up all your answers here kinda thing? Would it be through an application process in some manner, where now you have another group deciding who qualifies and who doesn't? Make it too hard, it isn't accessible. Make it too easy, everyone has it. How do you protect the information from just being posted out in the open for everyone on a different forum?  How do you make it available without giving it to potential abusers?

11 hours ago, Kharrs said:




As far as laws go, without sufficient backing from authorities in ethology and psychology, there is no hope of turning the tide.

I mentioned in my last response to you about moving towards better studies and using the scientific communities to delve further.

[FloofyNewfie]

On 10/3/2022 at 4:38 PM, WinterGreenWolf said:




If you don't want to support her, fucking don't. I didn't.

You didn't? So you're going to sit here and pretend that you didn't have an entire interview with Sappho? Sure you might have pulled the episode to save face after everything was exposed, but to sit here and pretend that you didn't previously support her is quite disingenuous.




I also like how you criticized Toggles for "limelighting" bad actors, yet you yourself have limelighted 2. Sappho and a guy that later admitted to being a zoo-sadist. Whoops.

[WinterGreenWolf]

52 minutes ago, FloofyNewfie said:




You didn't? So you're going to sit here and pretend that you didn't have an entire interview with Sappho? Sure you might have pulled the episode to save face after everything was exposed, but to sit here and pretend that you didn't previously support her is quite disingenuous.




I also like how you criticized Toggles for "limelighting" bad actors, yet you yourself have limelighted 2. Sappho and a guy that later admitted to being a zoo-sadist. Whoops.

Ah yes, an ethics lecture from the one who supports a forum full of rapists, sex addicts, and at least one guy who admits to glorifying a 'fuck and kill'. Good to know my 'superiors' are to such high standards.




I pulled those episodes after MUCH debate, because I DID NOT want to maintain or give them a platform to proliferate on. Are Toggle's episodes still up Newf? Do I need to do some digging and make a video on you next?




You've no right to speak to me on ethics and choices when you are a staff member of a forum that directly violates most, of not all the Zeta principals, including the one in this thread.




I spoke up when Sappho's actions were obviously not a fluke, troll, or some kind of play. Everybody gets one Newfie.




I suggest you remember your 'employer', ZTHorse, or should I refer to them as Grand Prix of the EZ days?




 

[FloofyNewfie]

15 minutes ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Ah yes, an ethics lecture from the one who supports a forum full of rapists, sex addicts, and at least one guy who admits to glorifying a 'fuck and kill'. Good to know my 'superiors' are to such high standards

You know what happens to sadists on ZooVille? Once we figure out that they are one they are banned. Perhaps when you were a member you never bothered to read our rules, but the rules are strictly upheld. But I like how you try to shift the narrative to something completely unrelated. You seem good at that.




 

19 minutes ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Do I need to do some digging and make a video on you next?

You go right ahead. You'll see that I have a history in the Zoo Realm of educating those that are ignorant and discouraging zoophilic fetishism. In fact I'd encourage it. My posts can be read without an account.




 

23 minutes ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




You've no right to speak to me on ethics and choices when you are a staff member of a forum that directly violates most, of not all the Zeta principals, including the one in this thread.

Oh, I don't? In case you weren't aware the dummies that post fetishistic crap on the forum are often backhanded with information proving that their position is incorrect. Backhanded in the sense that they are often rudely spoken down to, which isn't the approach I tend to take. But again, unrelated. I see why Darkmoor here is pleading to let the adults talk. You seem to have a habit opening your mouth with your brain completely shut off.




 

42 minutes ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Everybody gets one Newfie

In your case you got two. Don't want to talk about the self admitted zoo-sadist you had on your podcast? Gee, I wonder why.

[WinterGreenWolf]

46 minutes ago, FloofyNewfie said:




You know what happens to sadists on ZooVille? Once we figure out that they are one they are banned. Perhaps when you were a member you never bothered to read our rules, but the rules are strictly upheld. But I like how you try to shift the narrative to something completely unrelated. You seem good at that.

Oh like I'm going to believe that. Are they just 'banned' or reported to authorities? Oh and I can guarantee that you don't even so much as ban if they pay the bills. Or share 'good content'. Don't be disingenuous with me.

48 minutes ago, FloofyNewfie said:




You go right ahead. You'll see that I have a history in the Zoo Realm of educating those that are ignorant and discouraging zoophilic fetishism. In fact I'd encourage it. My posts can be read without an account.

Do you think this means you don't have demons? Honestly until you took offense to me I've never heard of you. Unless you're an up-and-coming zealous type? Looking to 'fight for the Zoo(ville) community?

51 minutes ago, FloofyNewfie said:




Oh, I don't? In case you weren't aware the dummies that post fetishistic crap on the forum are often backhanded with information proving that their position is incorrect. Backhanded in the sense that they are often rudely spoken down to, which isn't the approach I tend to take. But again, unrelated. I see why Darkmoor here is pleading to let the adults talk. You seem to have a habit opening your mouth with your brain completely shut off.

No, you do not. And this bullshit of 'I'm going to write a STERN letter to your manager, and speak RUDE' doesn't do jack-shit. Perhaps you'd have more a place to speak if your venerable leader wasn't pedaling senseless bestiality and trying to use it as an 'asset'. Doesn't that just sound the slightest bit like exploitation to you?




I'd say whilst Darkmoor has some history lessons they could teach, that's about it. It's the same repeated nonsense the community has done since the 90s. And of course, what's it helped Newfie? What's your or ZV's approach helped? 




You want to help people 'be educated against fetishism' but you take less than zero of a stand against it. Do you think that someone wanting to get off is going to read your 'rude letter'? The very platform you push on ALLOWS it to exist there.

55 minutes ago, FloofyNewfie said:




n your case you got two. Don't want to talk about the self admitted zoo-sadist you had on your podcast? Gee, I wonder why.

See the point on Sappho Newfie, their content was removed when they surfaced as a problem (wanting Zoosadism under the 'Zoo umbrella'). Everyone has a right to tell about therapy, and a (what was assumed, falsely) dark past recovered from. 




You seem to forget my stances are shaped by you people, the community's actions, false decisions, pretenses. I change my views based on the current events, repeated mistakes. Right now, it doesn't  look good for a lot of you. Not one bit.




I'm getting to the point where I'm even ashamed to be associated with some of you. That's my annoyance newfie. You lot are either proving stupid, or so 'sun setting' and complacent you refuse to even try to right the wrongs of a very blackened history.




It took me literal years to even attempt to come out and open in this community, especially as a more conservative Zoo, now I see why.




I also see that maybe I should have left well-enough alone and just denounced the whole lot like I used to.




I see many a groups, but this 'community' (not even close to one) is probably one of the blindest I've seen in quite some time. Unwilling to fork a ration of reason in to a situation, unwilling to change, and got forbid someone goes against the proverbial grain. How *DARE* I want the best for my canine partner? How DARE I seek to improve the lives of kids like me who struggle as I did?




How D A R E I seek something better and actually want to see abusers brought down and not forwarded? That's just too much isn't it newfie?




 

[Bear28]

21 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Neither myself or Kharrs are painting ourselves as some prophet or savior.

Did I ever say that you where?

21 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




You being 'old guard' doesn't mean you're always right, or that you're doing things right.

Never once have I made such a claim.  I'm human, and all us humans can be wrong. I will full admit when I am wrong like any rational adult.

21 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




I personally want to compile information, stories (good and bad), events (good and bad) and try to help people

A worthy goal. So please do continue to do so. This is why zoo message boards and forums came into existence to begin with. To compile information for those just coming to grips with ourselves. To find others who could understand us and what we were going through. Also so we could learn from each other, whether that was working on ourselves and lives or learning how to better care for our animals partners. In that learning we also could see the mistakes that others had made and hopefully be smart enough not to make the same ones ourselves.

21 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Learn from history, don't force people to re-live it.

I suggest that you take your own advice here. Some of that history, I and others have lived through. Not saying shut up and fuck your dog, I'm saying quite shoving this in the public's face. The more that zoo's or sexual deviants who dabble in to the animal sex gets pushed into the publics eye the more dangers it becomes for all of us. The public will never side with us. Human and animal sexuality has not been sociality acceptable sense the fall of the Roman Empire. We are just animal rapist to them. The more we go public, willingly or unwilling, the more they push back. Every time a person gets caught, laws are passed against all of us. Every time the news media runs a story on us, it is always blown out of proportion. Hell Nevada had laws passed against us and it was just two drunk idiots that had to jump a fence into one of our Assemblymen's sheep field. And if they are to be believe, they had never thought about having sex with an animal before that night. So in no way where they a part of us but we still have to pay for their bull shit.




Try to show that zoos are not child fuckers or sadist and the public lumps us all together anyway. Did you learn nothing from the Twitter Zoosadist Stunt. No mater how much we denounced the sadist the public lumped us all together with them anyway. Then when Sappho tried to become so called "face" of the community, then admitted that she was a "M.A.P." we all got lumped in as child fuckers.

22 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Does out of sight, out of mine REALLY work though Bear? Direct, serious question. I'd say if you want animals hurt it does, same as if you want people to have to struggle for every little morsel of information, then yes it works.

I can't speak for you but for me and many others it has. Just because we don't flaunt our sexuality in public doesn't mean we don't care. We do not want any animals hurt nor do we want others to struggle for information. That's whey we interact with others in the community. We point out the bad actors when we find them. We give advice on what red flags to look out fore. We give life advice and animal care advice. I do not know how any one nowadays has to struggle with information considering that anyone with a smart phone or internet access has access to more information at the touch of there fingertips then at any other time in human history. Those, like myself, who grew up before the Net had to scrounge for any tidbit of information and then we had to have the intellect to short through the trash to find the reliable info.




Again why message boards started so we could help each other with information, advice and personal experience. We have made mistakes, hopefully others don't make the same one after they hear what happened to us.

22 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




You can still act for a collective goal, without painting Zeta symbols and flags everywhere. We can't help the public learn about us, if we can't help US learn about us.

Agreed. All that pride bullshit and painting symbols and waving flags is dong nothing more then making it harder on all of us. The public don't like us as it is and just shoving this into there face makes them hate us even more.

[FloofyNewfie]

2 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Oh like I'm going to believe that. Are they just 'banned' or reported to authorities? Oh and I can guarantee that you don't even so much as ban if they pay the bills. Or share 'good content'. Don't be disingenuous with me.

They are simply banned, ZooVille has many filters to try and keep them from creating another account. But the fact that you seem to know absolutely nothing about ZooVille speaks volumes. Let me give you a great example. There was this user that went by Cody1234. He shared plenty of porn and many people absolutely loved him. But once it was discovered that he was having sex with fillies and calves, he was not ONLY banned, every single one of his posts were wiped from public view. It doesn't matter how much "hot porn" the dude shared, once we discovered he was a juvenile animal fucker, he was absolutely banned. But that's just one example, there are plenty more.




 

2 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




You want to help people 'be educated against fetishism' but you take less than zero of a stand against it. Do you think that someone wanting to get off is going to read your 'rude letter'? The very platform you push on ALLOWS it to exist there

Like I mentioned before, I, generally don't take the rude stance. Primarily because I'm well aware that rudely speaking down to someone doesn't accomplish much other than pissing the ignorant person off causing them to more than likely perpetuate their ignorance. It has the opposite intention of what you wish to accomplish. As another example, someone had a female dog that went into heat at around 6 months old. They stated their intentions to try and have sex with her. Instead of calling this guy a rapist and a would be puppy diddler, I calmly and rationally explained in depth why doing so would be a terrible idea. We had a little back and forth on the forum and eventually he reached out to me via PM to thank me and to ask some questions since this was his first female dog.




 




As for us being accepted, it isn't going to happen. To the "normies" we are about as bad as the pedophiles. Just imagine someone coming up and stating "I'm in a relationship with a 10 year old girl. Don't worry, she loves sex and we have a wonderful and loving relationship." You'd be like "WTF hell no!!" wouldn't you? That's the type of reaction you're going to get from most normies, because having sex with animals is absolutely abnormal. To most people unfathomable. Now, I could go into why bestiality and pedophilia is absolutely nothing alike and what exactly separates our sexual affinity for non-human animals compared to that of children. The biggest being that animal are, ya know, sexually mature. But most people are NOT going to listen to our justifications as to why bestiality is permissible under certain conditions. 

[WinterGreenWolf]

25 minutes ago, Bear28 said:




id I ever say that you where?

I'll try addressing two people in this if it's not too long. I suppose not Bear, at least not directly. It did however have a bit of the air of being aimed at me given the current going on of the thread. I will give you that one.

27 minutes ago, Bear28 said:




Never once have I made such a claim.  I'm human, and all us humans can be wrong. I will full admit when I am wrong like any rational adult.

I wish more people had this attitude, some of the older members here, and on places like ZV are making this one hard to believe. Not for you personally since you came forth and said it. I do my best to when I know I'm wrong about something.

30 minutes ago, Bear28 said:




A worthy goal. So please do continue to do so. This is why zoo message boards and forums came into existence to begin with. To compile information for those just coming to grips with ourselves. To find others who could understand us and what we were going through. Also so we could learn from each other, whether that was working on ourselves and lives or learning how to better care for our animals partners. In that learning we also could see the mistakes that others had made and hopefully be smart enough not to make the same ones ourselves.

I intend to, as long as I can tolerate I intend to do just this. I honestly want to see something more formal than forums, usegroups, and whatnot... as well as something better formulated and actually educational, to community and god forbid even the general populous who wish to read it. Sites like 'zoophile.net' (I believe it was?) failed MISERABLY at this, just pushing forward sex faqs and how not to get caught. Just pile it on to the sad state of affairs we ride today. I'm really trying to find light at the end of the tunnel, but it's not proving an easy task as you could tell by my last post likely.




I will do my best to make said goal a reality though, but myself and Kharrs (one of the others who're interested in this idea) need people and dedication. People willing to really review, critique, contribute, and whilst not formalize in an academic sense: make something formal that covers as many angles as possible.

35 minutes ago, Bear28 said:




I suggest that you take your own advice here. Some of that history, I and others have lived through. Not saying shut up and fuck your dog, I'm saying quite shoving this in the public's face. The more that zoo's or sexual deviants who dabble in to the animal sex gets pushed into the publics eye the more dangers it becomes for all of us. The public will never side with us. Human and animal sexuality has not been sociality acceptable sense the fall of the Roman Empire. We are just animal rapist to them. The more we go public, willingly or unwilling, the more they push back. Every time a person gets caught, laws are passed against all of us. Every time the news media runs a story on us, it is always blown out of proportion. Hell Nevada had laws passed against us and it was just two drunk idiots that had to jump a fence into one of our Assemblymen's sheep field. And if they are to be believe, they had never thought about having sex with an animal before that night. So in no way where they a part of us but we still have to pay for their bull shit.

Bear, NEITHER of us are shoving anything, or saying to shove debates in to the public's face.NO ONE is forcing anything to do ANYTHING. The kind of bleakness displayed here is part of the problem. The other problem I see is a LOT of you seem to WANT to just forget anything bad has happened, a damn-near refusal to learn from mistakes past. Did ir dawn that times change, as do some people?




Perhaps it's this stubbornness, and unwillingness to try the old proverb of 'build it, and they will come' that is the problem. Meaning if we really do try to put something formal together, well-written, acknowledge our faults and history and recent and present ideas to better them, some people WOULD listen and maybe ask questions. Instead of us appearing a bunch of closeted perverts on a forum using a VPN.




But again I add, NO ONE is being forced here. I may be chewing some peoples' asses, but it's because I want them to THINK and quit being so goddamn stubborn. I want y'all to LOOK at your history, LOOK at the fucked up shit that went wrong, ACKNOWLEDGE it, and start formulating ways to not erase, re-write, or eradicate it, but CORRECT the mistakes. Not merely allow them to continue and fester like a gangrenous wound.

42 minutes ago, Bear28 said:




Try to show that zoos are not child fuckers or sadist and the public lumps us all together anyway. Did you learn nothing from the Twitter Zoosadist Stunt. No mater how much we denounced the sadist the public lumped us all together with them anyway. Then when Sappho tried to become so called "face" of the community, then admitted that she was a "M.A.P." we all got lumped in as child fuckers.

You know why that happened Bear? Because it was ALLOWED to happen. The only cohesion in the community today, or trust network is MAD (Mutually Assured Destruction). Blackmail, trading sex material, and everyone just slinking away like a scolded child when shit hits the fan. Everyone just withdraws more and more, no one in this fragmented mess of a 'community' works together anymore, it's constant resistance with no one held to account or moving as they should. Fuck me people are so ethically and morally bankrupt even after people like Fausty and the leaders of BF that if you're a porn pusher you have all the pull. And yet, nothing is done.




And who suffers for this? Other Zoos sure, but the animals. Stupid people not being educated about the problems of Bestial acts, people taking the STUPIDEST risks, regret after action... you name it. Thankfully there's a few people in my friend circle now that I managed to help AVOID that pathway.

48 minutes ago, Bear28 said:




I can't speak for you but for me and many others it has. Just because we don't flaunt our sexuality in public doesn't mean we don't care. We do not want any animals hurt nor do we want others to struggle for information. That's whey we interact with others in the community. We point out the bad actors when we find them. We give advice on what red flags to look out fore. We give life advice and animal care advice. I do not know how any one nowadays has to struggle with information considering that anyone with a smart phone or internet access has access to more information at the touch of there fingertips then at any other time in human history. Those, like myself, who grew up before the Net had to scrounge for any tidbit of information and then we had to have the intellect to short through the trash to find the reliable info.

God dammit, again, no one is saying to FLAUNT ANYTHING... why does this not register? We're not working to be another Fausty, or Aluzky. And another simple question: if this works so well, WHY am I seeing the same goddamn mistakes I saw in the early 00s when I first discovered the community? Why am I seeing the same patterns?




I don't flaunt being a Zoo in the public square, fuck you'd never know unless you asked. Same with online spaces that I don't want to expose it to. ALL myself and the other small group involved in this mess want is a little rationale and formality. But it seems it's well-too-much to ask for at this rate. S O M E T H I N G that if people ask 'what is Zoophilia?' 'Am I one?' etc.. we can just say ' go to this website and read stating at the intro page' sort of thing.

52 minutes ago, Bear28 said:




Agreed. All that pride bullshit and painting symbols and waving flags is dong nothing more then making it harder on all of us. The public don't like us as it is and just shoving this into there face makes them hate us even more.

THANK YOU, someone else who gets it. We are NOT at the stage of public display, not yet, and not for a long time, maybe never. But it could be something to work on, our presentation skills and formality. Like I said, don't make people dig through shitty forums or something.




Make an E-Book, wiki, website, ANYTHING that is NOT some place for idiots to argue. That's the problem with debates on forums and social media. Nothing is reviewed and it's just a giant fucking mess.




It, like the rest of the comminuty at present lacks ANY kind of structure.