Zeta Principle as Community Framework (Education Without Promotion)

[WinterGreenWolf]

36 minutes ago, Darkmoor said:




P.S. You don't get to make the rules.

Neither do you. I'd argue many of your linguistic nitpicks and whatnot are you attempting to bend the ruleset to your own ends, no?

36 minutes ago, Darkmoor said:




If you are looking to discuss ethics and morality as the first line of your opening post claim, You can't brush linguistics under the rug.

I had actually composed a whole response to the entirety of your post, until I started reviewing, and noticed I missed this first line that I quoted from you.

You making a composition has little effect on me now though, does it? The statements on this thread thusfar is not revolving around language used, and if you've been around 'waaaayyyyy long' as you say you have, then the terminology isn't lost no? Shouldn't you be familiar as a community member? I'm not going to dig a glossary of terms, or redefine them multiple times for someone who should know. Again, you aren't the general public, and asking for clarification would have been enough.

36 minutes ago, Darkmoor said:




And just because you have seen things in use, does not make my points any less valid.

Now who's the ambiguous linguist?

36 minutes ago, Darkmoor said:




You are looking for input from the "community" yet do not want to have an open mind and some humility to grow and learn.

Respect is a thing earned. The others are watching.

Are you saying I should respect your points because they are verbose? I am looking for input, not a language lesson. There's a such thing as known and used language. Again, a simple request for definition would suffice.

36 minutes ago, Darkmoor said:




I am not new. I've been through this same rodeo waaayyyyyy too many times with many a fevered zealot.

I can list quite a few over the years. I suggest you do not idolize them.

So, I'm a Zealot now? Idolizing isn't my game bud. Considering I've had literal wars with people like ZTHorse, Fausty, and even a couple here briefly in the past; I don't think your comment on turning creeps in to idols really applies to me.

36 minutes ago, Darkmoor said:




If you cannot stand up to my arguments, and are not willing to engage them, how do you think you will do against the general public?

Consider my points as "practice" for you.

Well you aren't the general public, now are you? Nor are we arguing with them here. We're Zoos, discussing issues among other Zoos. We're not writing thesis papers or books on the perceptions of others.  We're addressing (myself and Kharrs, and others) real issues, that are really happening, right now.




We are nowhere near close to having to explain our position to the public.




IF you want me to engage your points deeper than I have already: I suggest you lose the snobby attitude and not try to lecture me on the language of a WORD. Or a common term among our community.




I also forgot to add, your above definition of Zoophilia is incorrect. But perhaps we won't reach the semantics or details of such a discussion. Your possible future reply will tell I suppose.

[Darkmoor]

7 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




<snip>

Observation: Not a single response is anything close to resembling an attempt at engagement of intellectual honesty or debate.

It is all deflection and attempts to cast aspersion upon the points I've made and/or upon my character.


Your decisions of your approach of the last 2 posts have demonstrated to me that you've no intention to begin to take this seriously. And as such, I'll congratulate you on your hollow victory. You've "won", I'll not bother to waste my time to someone that has no interest in seeking truth nor the roots of issues. What you are addressing is your own ego.

 

On 9/27/2022 at 4:17 PM, WinterGreenWolf said:




but like hell that's stopping me.

QED.


However, you've only squandered the opportunity to put your ideas to the test in a safe environment before you do damage.

 

8 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:



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8 hours ago, Darkmoor said:




I am not new. I've been through this same rodeo waaayyyyyy too many times with many a fevered zealot.

I can list quite a few over the years. I suggest you do not idolize them.

So, I'm a Zealot now? Idolizing isn't my game bud. Considering I've had literal wars with people like ZTHorse, Fausty, and even a couple here briefly in the past; I don't think your comment on turning creeps in to idols really applies to me.


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I have not called you a zealot, you took my statement and applied it to yourself. Very well, I'll not deny you that choice.

Your actions do mirror the zealots that have preceded you, putting the precedent upon a pedestal, acting as they did. I hear that mimicry is flattery.

 

8 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




Your possible future reply will tell I suppose.

Let me withhold my enthusiasm for your judgement.

*yawn*

[Darkmoor]

On 9/21/2022 at 1:32 PM, Kharrs said:




What will happen tomorrow if nothing is done today to improve the situation today?

Could you please explain why I should care about the fate of zoophiles of tomorrow?

Do you suggest that sacrifice and martyrdom today will have a positive effect on tomorrow?

Can this be in any way demonstrated, or is it all a hope and prayer?

[WinterGreenWolf]

46 minutes ago, Darkmoor said:




Could you please explain why I should care about the fate of zoophiles of tomorrow?

Do you suggest that sacrifice and martyrdom today will have a positive effect on tomorrow?

Can this be in any way demonstrated, or is it all a hope and prayer?

Is this not the same level of nihilism as people like 'UR2OZ' from ZooVille, or many of the folks who inhabit that site? The old 'things are broken, fuck it let it burn' type of mindset?




I felt this post more important to address than the previous one due to the previous one being more a position of self-imposed power against me and nothing more. This one however, relates to the community, or what fragments remain of it.




If you feel the need to attack Kharrs as you've attempted with me, go ahead. But it's fair to warn we're on the same page by and large here. We see a poor state that we wish to reverse. We're also willing to attempt it vs. doing nothing.




 

[Darkmoor]

12 hours ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




<snip>

I didn't ask you.

And while you felt the need to respond, you didn't answer a single question. All you've done is inferred that I'm nihilistic.

Lotsa words.

No substance.

No evidence.

No point.

I'm not so sure Kharrs appreciates you speaking for him. He's a much better orator and could be called a master debater.

[WinterGreenWolf]

That's just it, I'm not speaking on his behalf, merely saying we agree. The plot arch of nihilism is enough a problem here for me to question the amount of effort I'm expending, or have.




This could have been a solid conversation had you done two things.




1 - Not been so damn condescending.




2 - Simply asked for a definition or stance and not tried to lecture me on wording in the English language.




But, i see you've shown your hand. So is there point to trying further? Or are you going to ride the same path you've been riding so far?




- Another way to put it, being in a state of constant erudite prose doesn't make you higher, in your case it just made you ~another member of society~




 




~ = edit: Please don't resort to name calling (or, in this case, pointing out the obvious!)




~ Hiway (moderator)




 

[cervids]

3 hours ago, Darkmoor said:




Don't you wish you knew how much you don't know.

Pretty much everyone wishes for that, if they have any sense at all.  Just sayin'

[WinterGreenWolf]

7 hours ago, cervids said:




Pretty much everyone wishes for that, if they have any sense at all.  Just sayin'

Me, through my entire discovery process and even to this day. The second you stop questioning and think yourself to have all the answers, is the time when real problems start.

11 hours ago, Darkmoor said:




Nope. I was an asshole long before you were around.

This thread certainly didn't make me one.

Don't you wish you knew how much you don't know.

Alright, let me rephrase that. This confirmed my suspicions of you being an asshole, revealed your nihilism, and definitely gave the air of an Elitist prick.

[Darkmoor]

20 minutes ago, WinterGreenWolf said:




<snip>

Are you going to contribute some content to this thread, or just reply to my every post with some sort of bashing?

You are just displaying your inexperience, lack of knowledge, and inability to verbally joust in any sort of intellectual way.

It is like an immature child interrupting the adults trying to have a conversation.


Now, why don't you let Kharrs speak for himself in response to my posts?

[Kharrs]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:37 AM, Darkmoor said:




Could you please explain why I should care about the fate of zoophiles of tomorrow?

Do you suggest that sacrifice and martyrdom today will have a positive effect on tomorrow?

Can this be in any way demonstrated, or is it all a hope and prayer?

Nothing whatsoever requires or forces you or anyone else to care about the fate of zoophiles tomorrow.  I personally feel though that the state of affairs could be better the risks to ourselves, and our animals could be reduced with careful planning and consideration.  Sacrifice and martyrdom are not a necessary action or risk to take to improve the situation.




This thread only asks us to consider if the Zeta Principles, specifically education without promotion, is a good place to start if we were to conceptualize what a Zoo Community could and should be.




I feel that it is, the "how to FAQs" of old are clearly not the way to go, they promote activity and unsafe practices.  Misinformation on psychology and physiology increase risks to animals.  Providing a resource with correct information would reduce those risks providing it does not promote bestiality to begin with.  We currently find lots of outright promotion in the zoo community right now (community here meaning zoos in the greatest of general groupings.)  You have ZooVille promoting zoo meets in their personals section and glorifying porn and even monetizing porn right there in plain view.  You have furries openly promoting zoophilia on furry spaces and at conventions plastering stickers everywhere and trying to be as visible as possible.




Ever increasing exposure and lack of privacy lie this makes hiding one's head in the sand implausible.  It seems these principles need to somehow be promoted or amplified, if for nothing else than to decrease our exposure and increase the care and consideration this newer generation places on privacy and real-life animal safety.




Whether or not this is possible is another issue entirely.  Yet, I feel that some sort of set of ethics is a must for any improvement in "community" standards.  (Community here meaning any zoo group defined by either geographic or interweb locale.)




<font color="#141414">I will add here that the vacuum of leadership and ethical standards seems to have led to abusive elements taking hold.  Animal exploitation, abuse and pimping seemed to have gotten out of control.  </font>




Any journey, no matter how long, begins with just one step.  Are the Zeta Principles a good place to start?  Is education without promotion a plausible axiom?  Are we content with having laws on the books forever that don't distinguish between abusive and loving bestiality (using definition 2)?




 




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bestiality:

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NOUN

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savagely cruel or depraved behavior:



 

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sexual intercourse between a person and an animal.

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